Zack and his growing family absolutely love the elders, deacons, and everyone at Apologia. Did you HONESTLY believe that folks here thought that whoever owns that .org addy didnt know the address he was sending the traffic toward? Everybody knows that thinking people express themselves with cat macros. no? Hey, I know how you can tell if youve made a *really* good response! White makes some sophisticated-looking objections about something one of his interlocutors has said or done. We specialize in cover ups, We are the first and last stop for all ink addictions. Never argue with a fool, because a third party will not be able to tell the difference. Jorge Just as Mary said. I wasnt responding to Matthew originally, his request happened to coincide with my refutation of Esau via quotation of Whites own book about sola Scriptura. Anyone read the new reply from White? the Catholic Church is, I believe, truly Christs Church ******************** bill912, Anymore ad hominem onel iners or are you actually going to deal with the picture issue and refute me? Ill choose to not read Dr. Whites book at this time. I have four of my own to get in bed. There have been some wonderful posts with many great insights (at least for me personally). I will not claim that btw, please humor me and tell me exactly when and how Esau did what youve accused him of doing. Of course we hold these truths to be self-evident! : No, I will not. not all faiths can lead to salvation, only the One True Church, the Catholic Church Benigne dicis. Third, it actually produces a queasy feeling in my gut when I spend a couple of hours trying to put together a good, meaningful post, that expresses legitimate disappointment in the theocracy (definitely a theocracy) promoted by Rome, only to have it thrown off as utter nonsense. I think Jimmy Akin is a brilliant thinker and he can articulate deep and c omplicated subjects in a way that even I can understand. James White owes Catholics an apology for this. The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins The Annals of King David[4] All in good humour, of course, right??? None of this is really good, and Whites intent with #3 could hardly have been humorunless hes clueless about how it would be received by Catholics.unlikely. (MK)This is a very vague, generalized statement. Alpha & Omega 115 Trucker Hat. Im sorry, but no. It is not a *relationship*. Here is the context of my comment in my Aug. 11, 11:15 pm post: Ok, now lets see how youre going to prove that Carebear didnt consider ANY of the evidence. Much can be said in favour of the impassive precision of logic and scholarly conduct. Roman Catholic fanbois White then argues that the clarity of the Canon (mediated) is not dependant upon human beings, councils etc. 1. Esau, the claim was Whites supporters are either unable or unwilling to participate in a serious discussion. Such a claim is based on a negative view of SOME of his supporters on this forum and ignores the existence of supporters, perhaps to include those who haved posted on JA, who have been and/or are otherwise willing to participate in serious discussion were it not for the hostilities and dismissiveness present on the JA forum. I know I dont always). His restraint and politeness in many issues has several times given me second thought about my own inclined-to-be-too-sharp reactions. Hes not doing it to win, because that is contrary to an essential element of Calvinist theology. Registrant Phone:+1.9512424988 A quote for the ages. one) have in fact already made the determination. White hung up on me after having specifically invited me to discuss a particular subject, evidently because he just didnt like me, calling me smug and arrogant. Further confirmation that my post pointing out this wasnt an apologetics blog was absolutely brilliant! Can I safely assume now that you answer all questions pertaining to the nature of the CA URL in such a manner, ignorantly assuming that anyone who inquires about it is somehow a Disciple of White? Good grief, Greg. What case? Pope Damasus? I see now that blindly following James White is acceptable for you. Friends, That would be me calling you a liar, yes? Paraphrasing of the argument what was originally asked, anyways. If you have a question, just ask Jimmy directly, the way everyone else does. Thats important. A Jesuit will respond to a charge of killing three men and a dog by producing a live dog. Hmmmand his use of Romanism, etc, merely proves that he is indeed an anti-catholic by defintion even though he doesnt like that term applied to himself. (602) 973-4602 (Metro Phoenix) No, noyoure much too modest! Greek Latin Roots - by james.r.hendricks.390 - Memrise Symbol For Alpha Alpha And Omega Symbols Alpha Et Omega Patricia Briggs Samoan Tattoo I Tattoo Hebrew Tattoo Ankle Tattoo Alpha Omega Tattoo More information. He wasnt talking to me. I do think you have a point. My father had a deep concern, as a Baptist, for Catholics because he truly believed they were going to hell in ignorance. Seriously, though, all of this is the face of [denominational] apologetics to me. Its useless to try to reason with anyone who could defend those photos. More information Greek Latin Roots - by james.r.hendricks.390 - Memrise More like this More like this It predated the physical writing of the OT, and it predated the physical writing of the NT. All other points aside whether the admonishing was truly needed or not is irrelevant. What gives? For example, when Jimmy Akin has stated something incorrectly on a post, youll still find the original statement he made there and that it had only been redlined out (so-to-speak) with the appropriate corrected statement featured above the original one. Caesaropapism was a much more complex phenomenon with give and take between Church and State than is commonly understood. Ella Incorrect, since it is logical to conclude that those who do not do a thing to assume they are either unable or unwilling. Lisa, Then of course you have the Protestant disdain of the material; irrational and unbiblical though it may be. In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. Again, you, yourself, seem to be forgoing any possible transgression by James White but, instead, seem to hail him as some innocent victim in all this despite his egregiously offensive acts. Um, I have no idea what your comment, White is particularly antagonistic to White, means or is connected with. Again, there are far more effective ways to communicate that one perceives an inconsistency. This is one of them. No, you were responding in a manner that changed the topic from whom one should confess to into a highly complex question of my personal religious state as compared to that of the Twelve. http://www.jamesrwhite.org now points at Whites siteSuspicious, eh? I am in the wilds of eastern Mississippi but we got a program in anyway! When did CareBear claim he was saved by effeminate characters? He blogs on apologetics, culture, humor and lots of stuff. Here I go, getting baited back in. Does anyone else remember that saying: The Doctor nonsense is ironic beyond words. What you define as sacralism, the confusion between and effective melding of church and state is a Protestant and Orthodox phenomenon. Your first sentence is a non sequitur. Esau, HAHA!!!! Yes, I have heard some people report thinking to be painfully difficult. Jed, why did Jesus qualify His command that we must forgive with the words if he repents? There are some actions one is obligated to take in situations like these even if you do not feel guilty of being uncharitable. So which is it? Actually, Id be obliged if you could think of a third option? Salvation and I absolutely DO believe that repentance is required for I think White momentarily confuses his predefined terms. //Step up and play the man// I hate to even mention this but It does remind me of the mindset of many (thankfully not all) Muslims who, no matter what atrocity they are confronted with always see the Jews behind it to make them look bad. Just as all generations have known since Christ personally walked this Earth. The History of Nathan the Prophet[8] -CareBear. Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Esau, attack the deity of without considering that there might, just might possibly be an alternate explanation Your problem is with the historical record, not us. Well, so much for the liberalization of the church, her mass, customs and teachings to bring in the Protestants, they still hate the church! He is the author of more than twenty books, a professor, and an accomplished debater. Now, I realize that there is tension between Catholics and James White because he challenges the teachings of the Catholic Faith but dont let that distort your judgements. Now if it is true that nothing else matters if a person lacks charity, then there could not possibly be something more important to point out to a fellow Christian than when he or she is lacking in charity in some way. Most Tuesday Mornings at Hows that, Gary? 2. What does Constantine have to do with Henry VIIs control of the Church of England? I do think you have a point. uhm I did post at least one specific theological question that White was asking, let me post onf them them from his blog. Those are the remarks of a troll. Please Father, give Theo Your strength to do what he himself cannot do. Ive also read many of his articles on jimmyakin.com, thats why I want him to address the real issues White raised. Really, I dont think its unreasonable to request that information beyond go read this book be provided when having a discussion. The Question is, can they do anything about it? Assertion 1) Beckwith is a liar. Youre again committing that same category error. . // He (Dr Beckwith) repeatedly (two out of three aint bad) left his readers/listeners with the distinct impression that he had not read Trent until recently and insulted his former Lutheran professors by indicating they had led him to expect: to read this sort of horrible document, you know, requiring people to stick pins in their eyes, you know, and flagellate themselves, you know, CareBear: It would strain credibility to brag on one hand how your faith does not require membership in a given church or denomination (or non-denomination as they are called nowadays) and then come up with a definite list of denominations where your future children would not be saved, should they be raised there. Eldad and Modad Ray found out about the albino monk assassins weve sent out to stone James White! It doesnt hurt that much to say, I was wrong. She was responding to a very silly post, given that anyone who even half-heartedly scanned the comments here could clearly see that a large number are not indignation. I respectfully disagree with Jimmy. Foxflier, I did read Jimmys response to Dr. Whites comments. Which speaks volumes about the posters character. Dont you even know that there were huge disagreements in the Early Church about what the Canon of Scripture was ultimately comprised of??? I see no reason why anyone should get angry over them, instead of shaking his head and praying for whoever was foolish enough to think they were a good idea. If you believe that, go re-read this thread. Everyone really is fed up with the excuses. God became man. I see what Mr. White is trying to get at here, but this only describes the temporal portion of the canon, and in doing so it seems to ascribe to God a sense of learning, as if He didnt know what he would write from the beginning. Remember the last time you *actually* did not know whether to laugh or cry? However, the Bible sets forth a pattern of charity: confronting evil, treasuring prophetic rebuke, valuing- and practicing truthTelling and truthSeeking Did you have something of substance you wanted to say, or were you just going to back me up in a sarcastic manner. The two domains are pointing to two different IP addresses. First, the above allegorical example of author writing a book dies a hard death of insufficiency when applied to the Word of God. Thats painfully difficult to square with a heretofore-unrevealed admiration for any aspect of the mans argument. As it is, there is enough uncharitableness to go around. I think hes quite thoroughly a gentleman. Apparently nobody when you consider the following denominations and their doctrines: Feel free to uncharitably construe my words in the worst possible light Johnathan. This is a rather convient way to win a debate without ever having to defend a word you say. If this were 500 years ago, Id be getting tied to the stake right about now I bet, and thats part of the hilarity of those pictures. Not that it makes much sense as a reference/joke, but yes, that diction *was* in my mind for some reason. I once posted a blog about the illogic of sola scriptura God, in writing the scriptures through the hands of men, seeks to express, present and incarnate Himself to the world in a new way. Admin Phone:+1.9512424988 No, sorry, that doesnt work. If you are looking for intriguing alpha omega tattoo ideas, then you are going to end up in love with this one! St. Paul says: Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a Gospel to you other than that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema (Gal. By the way, I dont see where it was asserted that trusting the Canon meant you must believe in Tradition, so I think youre arguing a point that wasnt made here in this thread. If White has his own version of theology, he should just live it and not demand time from those who see things differently. I dont see why everyone else (necessarily) has mediated knowledge. . Esau there was a BIG burst of the nasty spam, and it was most of the links in the little recent post sidebar. Now, I realize somethimes the internet is different, in the sense people come across as arrogant. A final note: This is why the Internet is so annoying for debate. Are. Engage my posts from 5 days ago and then well get to yours. There is NO reason for a White disciple to point anyone to Catholic Answers, let alone build up some elaborate hoax to discredit the Catholics here. And just what is right and wrong? We can natter on about category errors and suchlike, all the while stating what a fitting comparison the individual in question made. Thank you, Donald Casadonte. Joe: Hey, youre just as bad. Dont poisen the well. We deserve the Klan. God is, after all, the author. well let me just say, your doing fine in that department already. We may point out that he is wrong in his actions, we may disagree with his theology, but we should NOT attack him personally. Well, there is that. Can the Church of the Three Eyes be its own reference point? Donald Casadonte, I take my hat off to you. from Columbia Every single non-denomination of Protestantism, on the other hand, is a doctrine of salvation unto itself open only to her vaunted members who have the cunning to see Pastor So-and-so is right. Joe. Its not as if His (infallible) knowledge can simply *pop* into existence. We are called by God to go beyond the veil of darkness and become what Chesterton calls an outpost of light. Funny You shouldnt cut-and-paste a huge amount of garbage into someone elses com box. As a Protestant, I use them all the time as references. Presumably there are Protestant apologists out there somewhere who can make substantive arguments that challenge us. We should storm heaven with prayers for his conversion. Yall had to do a lot of reflecting, toning down, and adjusting of your make-up to transform yourselves into the reasonable safe institution you are today. Sola Scriptura is a central tenet of most of Protestant Christianity due to the fact that all operating Protestant doctrines must conform to its principles. Dale Price, thanks for your post above. Repeat what argument? All this depends on whether you draw the line at liturgy, church hierarchy, the definition of salvation, the efficacy of grace, and the role of human free will. Feeling the way that I do about the threat of Islamofacism that faces us today, the pictures on the White site made me cringe a bit because I knew they would not be received well on the other side. Does an OSASer lose salvation when he converts to Presbyterianism? Call him again Johnathan. good post Dont you lose under Godwins Law as soon as you say that Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world? In this context, it is a weak connection that can be made between Catholic bloggers and Moslem radicals, at best, and an insulting connection, at worst, given the number of christians, both Catholic and Protestants, who are dying by the sword in the Middle East. What a pointless waste of time. This is why the same man who wants you to call him Dr. when he doesnt have a real doctorate, wants you to declare his photo-shopped pics humorous when anyone with good sense will see that they are borne of animus and not levity. Lynchburger: I used to be so much where you are!! Who was the Founder of Christianity? of Mapname.com customer 3 Soon as White says Look, Im sorry Ill be cool with im. Box 37106 Did The Early Church Believe in a Papacy? As I posted earlier, Whites defenders have displayed their fruits, by which we now know them. Instead of apologizing he makes even more outrageous statements. Maccabees (II) I know when I first found this site, I read through a lot of the older posts, if I was interested in the topic. Came to you live from somewhere in the wilds of Texas today, will be in Houston tomorrow with the What is Marriage? debate on Wednesday. Donald Casadonte. and 3] learn church history, archaelogy and let that information soften your collective memory [which is another word for embedded prejudice. As a Protestant, Im ashamed of James Whites actions. 2. I seem to recall that someone paid Google to make the top search for the current POTUS a Bush is an idiot site for well over a month. 5 days and counting and no one has interacted with Dr. Whites pointsCareBear, August 13, 2007 They make the divide wider, thereby reassuring those on both sides that they dont have to take seriously the other side or those on it. After all, they ascribe infallibilityindeed, impeccabilityto White in all his dealings with Catholics, as this thread amply bears out. Though I think one of those pictures may have been from a Barry whoot, eight bucks. So the same type of photo would be appropriate if demonstrated by a pro-choicer wishing to inject levity into the pro-life debate? Oh, thats an interesting response. Which is it? The Patriarchs opponent (enemy) of King James Onlyism. Thus, in their mind presenting Jesus with the tax question seemed to be insuperable logic, based on their unexamined sacralist assumption. Alternatively, depending on your preferences, you can also choose a design like this. It seems like the lady doth protest too much, methinks. You cant. Im still waiting for refuation of the arguments I posted and you for you to stuble upon the definition of ad hominem. And, CareBear, please dont make this out to an INFOMERCIAL FOR JAMES WHITE by AGAIN DODGING the question by the silly, evasive response: Which (if either) is the correct list, and how does one make that determination? Established internationally, with over 20 years award winning experience we set the standard you deserve. That authority has been passed down through Apostolic succession. That is, why would Catholic anybody (e.g., Catholic Answers, Jimmy Akin, or especially the Catholic Church) actually engage in such an act? It is a rather important thing, being forgiven your sins.). When that is combined with explicit teaching of a superior human caste that controls and defines truth for such an entity, you have no rational ability to differentiate between that and any other political schema aimed at raw authoritarianism. I mean, what do you tell people who stumble onto the site looking for theological answers who have never heard of James White? [definition from Foxfier: it seems like convenient outrage. A. ;^). Rather he is saying that since those pictures are inherently disrespectful reasonable debate ceased to exist. And why am I not surprised?? alleges that critics of Lordship Salvation don't believe repentance is necessary for salvation. Care to back up the claim that the early Fathers actually support modern Roman doctrine? Only in this self emptying is an abundant harvest. That sounded so much like the playground nyahh, nyahh, same to you! that I actually laughed out loud. As awful as it is, what he did shouldnt make anyone else treat him differently. Blog Or are you going to evade the question once again by mindlessly following the ravings of an Internet Apologist! Back to the point, the setup smells. Realize that the only place an omnipresent God cannot be is in the heart of those who refuse Him. The Revelation of Paul You ducked my accusations until I got sick of it and then started bantering on about how wrong I was. helpful quotes between salvation and discipleship. I wonder if civility would be improved if we more folks posted under their real names. And I do understand that this blog represents, to a certain degree, you feelings, and should be more raw than a formal article or text. White chooses Nicea as some type of magical benchmark, because certain beliefs werent formally defined then, even though the belief existed (i.e., transubstantiation). ThoughI must wonder did Paul post a picture of the Pharisees as a brood of vipers on his blog . For a while I tried to pay close attention to see if White really was being misunderstood, or if his opponents were unjustifiably touchy. Then we moved First half hour is on how the Regimes attempt to get rid of gas ovens is, in reality, connected to everything else, including the insanity of thinking four year olds can choose their gender. Pastor Luke PiersonLuke, along with Pastor Jeff, co-founded Apologia Studios and End Abortion Now, and is Co-Host of the churchs radio and TV programs,Apologia Radio and Apologia TV. How could he lead so many astray? He is a Pastor/Elder of Apologia Church in Arizona. To many, Dr. James White needs no introduction. Insignificant: authors frequently use an idea gleaned from someone else without remembering that they even read it somewhere else. I make my own choices, and God allows me to do so. I will, therefore, just urge you 1] to grow deeply in the love and truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, bearing Gods fruit in every field of your life. Is the man who deceives his neighbor, and then says, I was only joking.'. An apology. The accusation that the Church bases her Theology on a secret is nuts. James White is, quite simply, a moron. A few minor edits help it along. In Numbers 21:4-9, the people complained and died when snakes bit them. But there are some acts against others that go to disrespecting their equality as a fellow human bearing the clear mark of their Creator in the workings of their mind and soul. The Book of Nathan the Prophet[6] Esau, I cannot speak to Jimmys motives, but in my opinion the outrage is convenient in that it allows a clean break while simultaneously indicting James White. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. Heh, hehin a funny way, hes doing the kind of thing that Jesuits have been accused of from it, that ye may here. God help him; his friends clearly arent going to do so. I have heard James White in debate also and he has always stuck to the task at hand and done so, in a Christ like manner. The outrage here seems a little melodramatic, Melodramatic in what respect? Who or why is an open question but to claim as some here have that it is a conspiracy to make you all look bad. 2]Cherish and love the Holy Scriptures, being careful to not impose your theological structures upon its message. Esau I think the trademarked toy hasnt realized that the .org addy is an auto-forward to another site, and thus doesnt need to have the slightest relation to the site it forwards to. Did his pictures provoke wry smiles and amusement among his audience? 34 Best Alpha omega tattoo ideas | alpha omega tattoo, alpha and omega symbols, christian symbols Alpha omega tattoo 34 Pins 2y T Collection by Thomas Mason Similar ideas popular now Faith Tattoo Cross Pictures Pictures To Draw Logo Design Graphic Design Alpha Omega Tattoo Alpha And Omega Symbols Survival Tattoo Beautiful Flower Tattoos Given that Guardian shows up, posts a URL out of the blue, vanishes and four hours later White has an angry post up, it does stink. Tawhid or Trinity: Is God One or Three Divine Persons? warning from God not to add or subtract from His Words. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. . Note to CareBear: Lamech Denounce such weird and obsessive tactics as beneath the Catholic community and start dealing with the substance of arguments instead of personal agendas. Pretty soon shell be telling us about how she rejoices whether or not whatever. Posted by: Foxfier | Aug 14, 2007 1:10:05 PM But Greg, heres my inquiry to you. If you mean your own statements, then my objection is withdrawn. The Psalms of Solomon For the run-of-the-mill Protestant, the issue doesnt come up that often, but for Dr. White and Carebear as two examples and Ive known others intimately, there is an intense need to win this argument, regardless of what convolutions of logic are required, whether it requires thousands of angels dancing on pin-heads. Yes, that too is a type of relationship. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church is not a person, its the church founded by Christ. 7:10,11) And how does one persons opinion speculation make us all look bad, precisely? at this point. White also ignores that God has always worked incarnationally, (the scripture recounts that) that Scripture mediates the authority through the Church and her overseers (bishops). Jimmy is right in the essence of his post: White has lowered the level of debate below that of being able to produce any good fruit. ummmthat was in response to Bill912. All modern versions For some, the filter includes Rome. Rather than deal with this, some play every which way but loose, even to the point of insinuating I did it. [4], White graduated with a BA from Grand Canyon University (formerly known as Grand Canyon College) and an MA from Fuller Theological Seminary. Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world, and thus anyone who depicts his debate opponents as Islamists automatically loses whatever debate was underway due to forfeiture. Apostasy in the Gospel (2 Timothy 4 vs 10), Living With Loss, Finding Peace Through Pain, Scripture and the Modern Day Prophets and Apostles, Deuteronomy Chapter 11 The Importance of Gods Law. change of lifestyle. This is human effort and a form of works salvation. His methods of distortion are to Catholicism what Richard Dawkins is to Christianity in general he reads, but not too deep. In whose eyes? Liar. Maybe you think calling Mr. White names and running discussions according to a made up law is engaging in appropriate discussion methods. Who would know better what the Apostles actually taught about the Teachings of Jesus Christ? However, it is axiomatic that all healing comes from Jesus. His revelation? Apparently you looked only at that post and did not read the thread because in that same 11:19 post, I said that Mary and I are separate people. What Does a Christian Need to Know About Roman Catholicism? It is true that there are alternative means of expressing frustration. missed an and They have revealed themselves clearly. Especially when a new Catholic like Dr Beckwith is involved you dont want to just let them throw mud at him. The point I was attempting to make earlier in this thread (since the website was again brought up as an issue) with my Disciples of James White Conspiracy Theory is that it is just as ridiculous as the Catholic Answers/Jimmy Akin/Catholic Church Conspiracy Theory. I find this strange because it seems to me that he has set up the concept of Canon knowledge (mediated) as something which humans possess, something they understand due to the communication of the author. I accused Esau of knowingly committing fallacy, and dilineated exactly how he did it. If you were Catholic, Id tell you to go to confession. Very insightfully put, Matthew. Westcott and NEVER!!!! deanswife, only if you know the secret handshake. LOL. And dearest Father, sweet Abba, I pray that if this pain is to Theo, as the thorn in the flesh was to Paul, that You in Your mercy would allow Theo to recognise that. CareBear: I, on the other hand, being only a child, & having espied a naked man in the middle of the highway, am unafraid to say, once again: The Emperor is as naked as a jaybird! If you have questions about Catholicism, just ask them. Apologetics, Faraston Seminary, 1995, M.A. When I have my employees in office, my goal is to address fully, the items on the agenda. Of course, I know both of you will continue on ignoring these facts, but, now that you have been informed you cant claim ignorance of the subject. You dont have to take responsibility for Whites questions. Those 8 questions belong are enough for several threads. Have you told the church yet Esau? I wasnt saying anything more than if you say (i.e. The Book of Shemaiah the Prophet[10] How do we know what decisions were made at it? Certainly the Catholic Church has its share, as does any very large body of people, unfortunately. Jimmy never said anything to the effect of neener, neener, but I do agree with him asking friends of Mr. White to explain why his actions are inappropriate, since he MIGHT be more liable to take their words to heart. Theo. Jeff Durbin is Pastor/Elder of Apologia Church in Tempe since it was founded in February of 2010. Look at the 08/08/2007 entry in Dr. Whites blog here: http://www.aomin.org Dont want to just let them throw mud at him his predefined terms of... Really * good response try to reason with anyone who could defend photos. Esau there was a BIG burst of the impassive precision of logic scholarly! Are to Catholicism what Richard Dawkins is to address fully, the Catholic Church Benigne dicis not impose theological! My post pointing out this wasnt an apologetics blog was absolutely brilliant choose... Engaging in appropriate discussion methods one ) have in fact already made the determination Apostolic.! 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