The bottom line is that there is no evidence to support the claim that there were two Eliams. The Mount of Olives is adjacent to the city of Jerusalem, so David would have had a good view of the city and thus, assuming he wrote the psalm, could have been describing his feelings at the time. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. [67] Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the average lifespan at the time was around 7080 years (note that this is a very generous assumption). [63] Finally, he returned to Giloh and hanged himself after Absalom failed to take his advice. Bullinger,[35] Thomas Cooke,[36] the Benson Commentary,[37] Clarkes Commentary,[38] John Trapp,[39] the Pulpit Commentary,[40] Hawkers Poor Mans Commentary,[41] the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[42] Keil and Delitzsch Old Testament Commentary,[43] the Lange Commentary on the Holy Scriptures,[44] the MacArthur Bible Commentary,[45] Wesleys Explanatory Notes,[46] and Whedons Commentary on the Bible,[47] also identify Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm. To make matters worse, we need to allow at least 18 months (two pregnancies) between Davids first encounter with Bathsheba and Solomons birth (2 Samuel 11), which means that Bathsheba was around 79 years old at the time. You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. esteemed by David as such; refers to Ahithophel., [36] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, We may observe here, that this description answers perfectly well to Achitophel, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets, [37] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, The Chaldee paraphrase names Ahithophel as the person here meant, and certainly the description agrees perfectly well to him, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets; and certainly nothing in the plot of the rebels seems to have discouraged David so much as to hear that Ahithophel was among the conspirators with Absalom., [38] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, It is likely that in all these three verses Ahithophel is meant, who, it appears, had been at the bottom of the conspiracy from the beginning; and probably was the first mover of the vain mind of Absalom to do what he did., [39] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html. By the way, can you visit my website and comment below about what you think of my articles? The ancient Jewish tradition preserved by Jerome (Qu. From the roof he saw a woman bathing; the woman was very beautiful. [13] Most commentaries also share this view, including Barnes Notes on the Bible,[14] Coffmans Commentaries on the Bible,[15] the Expository Notes by Dr. Thomas Constable,[16] E.W. IT experts since 1997. The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. King Davids Marriage To 12 Year Old Abishag - Bible. So, we should follow Muhammads example and only allow marriage at an age that is appropriate for the time. [93] Also, the Midrash identified Ahithophel as Bathshebas grandfather, thereby indirectly confirming that the two Eliams were the same person.[94]. 1055-1023.) Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole. In his commentary, Ibn Kathir stated that the age of marriage coincides with the age of puberty. 25:3). So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was 39 years old), and he was Bathshebas grandfather, then how old could Bathsheba have been around this time? Furthermore, God approved of David remaining married to Bathsheba, which resulted in the birth of Solomon, whom God loved. Furthermore, as stated, David himself was 70 years old at the time of his death. What if someone was 90 years old at the time?, Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? We have already seen evidence in a previous article that the marriage was Biblically valid. Indeed, this is highly unlikely given that Barzillai the Gileadite, who was 80 years old at the time of the revolt and was a supporter of David, was not willing to cross the Jordan river with David to go to Jerusalem from Mahanaim after Absaloms defeat and death because he was too old.[65]. Interestingly, the inspired text states that Ahithophels advice to Absalom was good but that Absalom instead chose to follow the bad advice of Hushai the Arkite (2 Samuel 17:14), who was in fact a double-agent sent by David. There is an obvious contradiction. WebEven so, the next king of Israel, Solomon, was later born to David and Bathsheba (12:24). 7 When Uriah came to him, David asked about the welfare of Joab and the army and how the battle was going. In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). [100] Perhaps most controversial is his refusal to assign a particular age to serve as a cutoff. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including, There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. This tends to be the go-to argument for problematic verses. Son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, and one of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel 23:34 ). They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. Thus, while marriage at the onset of puberty was not unusual, the Bible indicates that both marriage and sexual intercourse were sometimes permitted at very young ages (though this does not appear to be the norm). This relationship probably led to Ahithophels disloyalty (2 Samuel 15:12)., [18] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ghe/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel was very likely the grandfather of Bathsheba, [19] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, The grandfather of Bethsabee is supposed to have revolted against David, to revenge the wrong done to her., [20] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-samuel-23.html#34, Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite , [ Eliy`aam (Hebrew #463)] omitted in the parallel list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47; traditionally believed to be the same as the person mentioned, 2 Samuel 11:23 (Jerome, Quaest. 12 Then David told Uriah, Stay here one more day. All which agrees to Achitophel., [47] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor, Ahithophel. Dimensions: 22 1/2 x 30 in. Title: The Toilet of Bathsheba. Furthermore, according to 2 Samuel 15:31, upon finding out about Ahithophel, David prayed to God to: turn Ahithophels counsel into foolishness.. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). [60] Wesleys Explanatory Notes also suggests this interpretation but is rather vague. 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. My wife was Mrs Wallace, and still is. Note that this is the most conservative estimate. [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old. See here for the sheep ate the Quran polemic: Could you also tell or contact the author of this article telling him that a man having a channel called Islam Critiqued claimed to have refuted or debunked the marriage of Rebekah and Isaac. Called Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5. He reigned for 40 years. At the time of Absaloms revolt he deserted David (Psalms 41:9 ; 55:12-14). Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. [1] https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/the-age-of-marriage-in-the-bible/. He betrayed David by joining Absaloms revolt. 23), but of Ahithophels unfaithfulness and the rebellion of Absalom (Chald., the Rabbins, and most interpreters), and indeed not after the outbreak of the rebellion, but shortly before it.. 10 David was told, Uriah didnt go down to his own house, so David asked Uriah, Havent you just returned from a journey? But this is not reasonable. Bathsheba was described as having Talmud Niddah 29b; Halacha is clear, ritual bath must be done during the morning hence, there is no connection with Bathsheba who took a bath during the night (2 Samuel 11:2). Learn how your comment data is processed. As the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary, Jehoiadas life was protracted to unusual longevity. Moreover, according to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text. An older king could certainly have a younger counselor, and since early marriages were very common, it is not surprising for a 3040-year-old man to have grandchildren. The answer comes from Psalm 55:23 (emphasis ours): But you, God, will bring down the wicked into the pit of decay; the bloodthirsty and deceitful will not live out half their days. There are 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age. Bathsheba was sun baking on a roof at the time David first set eyes on her. Really it was he who met Bathsheba. Bathsheba was probably minding her How[c] could I go home and eat, drink, and have sex with my wife? [3] Nevertheless, in the last article, I demonstrated that in Marys time, the age of 12 was the average age of puberty as well as marriage. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (9-11 years old) gave birth to Solomon. As for Davids age, it can be estimated based on the account of Solomons ascension to the throne of Israel in 1 Chronicles 29. It was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for intercourse. By the way, I made a website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God. This verse is crucial. This does not mean that Muslims should marry their 9-year old children in modern times, because as stated above (see objection #5), people we would consider children in our times were not necessarily considered as such in ancient times. Less than eight years old. She was eight when she had her first child. (Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 69b). Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). [5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. Then she returned home. These include Adam Clarke,[56] Matthew Henry,[57] Joseph Caryl,[58] Henry Hammond,[59] and Griffith Williams. [The Septuagint calls him Eliab. My bad. Credit Line: Bequest of Benjamin Altman, 1913. It reads like a song of the time of Absalom and Ahithophel. In this article. As far as I am aware, this evidence has not been discussed before in Muslim-Christian debates, so it is completely new (though it is not a new discovery). The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the And the arabic word Makr is used meaning plan, not deceive. But as demonstrated above, all the major commentators, both Jewish and Christian, agreed that the subject of the psalm was the Davids anguish for Ahithophels betrayal. They shall live as long as the Lord of life, the righteous Judge, has appointed, with whom the number of our months is; but he has determined to cut them off by an untimely death in the midst of their days., [58] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533023, A wicked man never lives out half his days; for either he is cut off before he hath lived half the course of nature, or he is cut off before he hath lived a quarter of the course of his desires; either he lives not half so long as he would; and therefore let him die when he will, his death is full of terror, trouble, and confusion, because he dies out of season. JazahAllahu Khair for your hard word we learn so much from you, Was iyyak. [86] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, [Ahithophel] may have been the grandfather of Bathsheba, Davids partner in sin and wife, [87] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/e/eliam.html, 1. Both words signify my people is Gods. This son of Achitophel (chap. But, let us be even more generous and round it up to 80. [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David., This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in, But it was thou,. How could they both be alive in 1 Chronicles 27 when Ahithophel supposedly committed suicide in 2 Samuel 17? The Targum is, but thou Ahithophel; of whom the words are literally to be understood, and so they are in the Talmud (u); and mystically and typically of Judas[30], Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole,[31] John Phillips,[32] C. H. Spurgeon,[33] Chuck Smith,[34] E.W. Rather, my argument is that there was nothing Biblically wrong or immoral about Muhammads marriage to Aisha and that it was common practice in virtually all cultures for people to marry young (usually by the onset of puberty). Hushai the Arkite was the kings confidant. Was David not praying to God for this to happen? What I mean by this, is that I have proven that Allah is not moon god scriptural and I have shown who have made this suggestion and that is Morey. The reason for this was: [f]or the Lord had determined to frustrate the good advice of Ahithophel in order to bring disaster on Absalom.. This elite group also included Uriah the Hittite (v. 39). The evidence in question comes from the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba. Great. It should be noted that the Bible does not state Bathsheba was _ years old. An argument has been founded on this to account for the hostility of Ahithophel to king David, [89] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/2_samuel/11.htm, Eliam Or Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5, the component words being placed in an inverse order. Bathsheba couldnt say no to King David any more than an enslaved Sally Hemmings could say no to Thomas Jefferson. There is simply no reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment of finding out Bathshebas true age. There is no hint that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection. The Babylonian Talmud states that (emphasis ours): Bathsheba gave birth to Solomon when she was six, because a woman is stronger and can conceive at an earlier age. The reason is given in the genealogical tables, which show that he was the grandfather of Bathsheba, and that his son Eliam was the comrade and friend of Uriah., [27] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tpc/2-samuel-15.html#1, Ahithophel, the grandfather of Bathsheba (2 Samuel 15:12; 2 Samuel:3), [29] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/psalms/55.htm, [30] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-13.htm, [31] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/psalms/55.htm, that person who was the chief contriver and promoter of this rebellion under Absalom, even to Ahithophel, of whom he spoke [in] Psalm 55:13; and though he doth not excuse the rest, as we have seen, yet he lays the chief blame upon him, and here he adds new aggravations of his treason.. This tends to be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor old... Reason to make assume otherwise, other than to avoid the embarrassment finding... 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Is used meaning plan, not deceive his refusal to assign a particular age serve... Kathir stated that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened a! ] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather Bathsheba couldnt say no to king David more.